Welcome to Thomistic womanhood. In today’s video, this is going to be a two-part thing, we’re going to tackle modesty. So the video I kind of didn’t want to make, I was kind of dreading it, but I feel like it does need to get talked about. So especially on a channel like this, it’s one of those topics that’s bound to come up. So we’re going to cover it today, this is going to be a two-part video, I’m gonna do one part that is not really about modesty. It’s kind of about the debate about modesty. So we’re going to get into some of the arguments for it, that frankly, I think are dumb arguments, but they often get tossed around. And then we’re going to go into the second part where I give what I think are good arguments for it and I’m going to give my argument in favor of it. So stay tuned.

Welcome to Thomistic womanhood. In today’s video, we’re gonna talk about modesty. Let’s all take a deep breath. This is a really hot topic. And I’ve been in conservative Catholic circles pretty much my whole life. I was raised by a very strict mother, and I had to dress modestly. So I lived this, and there is quite a debate around it. And I’ve heard pretty much every argument under the sun about it. So in this first video, we’re going to talk about some of the arguments and the ones that I think are kind of stupid arguments for it. Now, spoiler alert, I am in favor of modesty properly understood, some people can take it very far, you know, and they kind of freak out if your skirts are shorter than your ankles. You know, some people get a little scrupulous about it, but in general, I do believe you should have some standards for how you’re going to dress but we’ll get to that more in the second video where I talk about the reasons I have, the reasons I do think there is something to it. In this video, however, this is going to be a bit of a throwdown on what I think are the stupid reasons for modesty. And I think the arguments in favor or against it or whatever. I think the main arguments, the pro modesty arguments that I think are not good, can be grouped into two categories.

First Argument

So we’ll talk about the first category here. And this is the… let’s call it the do-a-favor-for-your-brother-in-Christ argument. And it’s the one that boils down to you’re a woman, you have a hot body, men can’t handle seeing that hot body. So you need to cover it up to do them the favor because the poor guys can’t control themselves. And I do think that this is not a very compelling argument now and it’s not compelling for the reason that It often plays on women’s sympathy. You know, people are often like, Well, you know, he’s your brother in Christ, like, Don’t you care about them? And it’s like, dude, some of these guys, these church dudes are not acting like no brothers in Christ. And so you’re over here, trying to dress modestly and make these like heroic efforts because let’s be real, it is a heroic effort. Anybody who had to dress modestly for any length of time, you know, going to the mall or going to the stores. You can’t find cute modest clothes, like, let’s be real, that’s why we’re all wearing t-shirts and Jean, skirts at Mass all the time, because there’s nothing cute out there. So it becomes this very difficult thing to pull off. It’s hard to dress modestly. And I think this argument like you know, take one for the team, do it for your brother in Christ. Like I think that argument kind of doesn’t respect the difficulties women have to go through to dress modestly. And so if your only reason for dressing modestly, is, well, I have to be nice to men. When those men aren’t so nice to you, it can be very hard to keep making that sacrifice because again, there’s not a lot of cute clothes out there that are modest, like, let’s be real, like we don’t have, fashions nowadays are just, I don’t know, dude, we could make another video about that, like beauty and fashion for the Thomistic Woman. Like maybe we can get into that later. But this argument? Yeah, it’s I think it’s the weakest argument for modesty and having some feminine dignity in your clothing. I think that’s the weakest argument.

So this argument is often put forward, not by the priests. Ironically, in my experience, they usually are not saying it for that reason, they will use different arguments that, frankly, are usually better and they’re usually good reasons. But I do find that this argument is often put forward by young Catholic men who are quite happy to tell young Catholic girls how they ought to be living. And that is one other thing about this debate that I think needs to be called out. If you’re a young woman, be very suspicious of what Catholic guys are telling you if they’re your dad, if they’re a trusted Brother, obviously you want to listen to them. If it’s your parish priests you want to listen to them. Fathers and parish priests are usually pretty trustworthy about this, especially now if it’s some father if it’s like somebody else’s Dad, I don’t know, Be careful because there are a lot of men that are very free with their opinion on this and they can be quite obnoxious. So if you’re a girl and it’s stressing you out and you know a bunch of Catholic guys and they’re just brimming with opinions on this. Do yourself a favor and like, just don’t discuss it with them. And if they start bringing it up, you know, if you know, you’re dressing modestly, like, Don’t listen to them, okay? Cuz a lot of guys, again, this used to be kind of a debate that would come up, and it would come up in person. But now, you know, we’re so digital. You know, I see this play out in a lot of like forums and Reddit threads.

The argument guys are very invested in the outcome of this debate, because it can be very impassioned, and like, No, no, you need to dress modestly. And this is how you dress modestly. And this is why and to honor God and dra dra, and they can be really critical about it, you know, and so, but I think that what’s driving that is, I’m a man, you make me feel things I can’t control. I don’t like that feeling. So rather than trying to control me or just accept the cross that is, you know, because having a very unruly sex drive is just across of being a man. So if you’re a guy watching this sorry, like, that’s kind of how it is. And so that is kind of what I think is driving it guys are like, well,, this is a cross for me, you know, and I want women to cover up to make my life easier. I think if that’s the motivation for discussing this topic, I don’t think that’s a healthy place to be having this conversation from if you’re a guy.

So coming back to the women, again, if guys are getting into that, and they’re just beating you over the head. Just do yourself a favor and don’t listen. Another thing that guys don’t understand is how monumentally difficult it is to find modest clothes. And I do think that in these criticisms that, you know, young Catholic guys are so ready to give out on this subject, it is a fact of the matter that they forget, in that it’s very difficult to find modest clothes. I agree we should all strive for some sort of standard of dignity and how we dress. But it can be really hard to find that. And I want to use kind of an analogy here. So for this analogy try to think of it as something that you know, you just kind of take for granted every day, like, let’s say what you eat, because getting dressed, it can be something that you just take for granted every day, you just reach in your closet, pull something out. So the whole modesty difficulty for women, again, if you’re a guy watching this, the whole difficulty comes in and this is why women are so resistant. When you know, you start like, Oh, you need to do this. It’s because it’s really hard. It’d be like if you were thinking about what you’re going to eat every day. And let’s say that, you don’t eat out that much. And you just eat at home. And you are constantly being told no, that stuff at the store, you can’t eat any of the food at the store, you have to go to this health food store that small, it’s on the other side of town, they never have in stock really what you need. So you know, instead of getting the week’s groceries, you can only get two days at a time because they don’t stock enough. And so it’s not even food you like, your favorite fruit is never there, you know, maybe you get a fruit that’s kind of a little ripe, but, you’re like, Okay, it’s like overly ripe, but you just make it work. And so you kind of end up buying because you have to not because it’s the food you enjoy. And so then you come home and you have to eat that.

And then you have people who get to go to the store, and they can eat whatever’s at the normal store. Because how many of you men have to go to special stores to get modest male clothing, not that many. So it’s kind of the same Analogy you know, you get to eat whatever you want at the store. But girls, oh, no, you can’t buy it. You can’t eat that food at the store, you have to go to, you know, seek out and like, what if your town doesn’t have that kind of health food store, then you got to go online, you got to pay extra money to get the food shipped. And what if you get the food and it’s like, it’s the wrong kind of food, then you got to work on returning it, and it’s a whole big mess. And so that is an analogy of how difficult it is to dress modestly and find modest clothes. Now, I’m not saying that that means that we just don’t worry about what we wear, we dress like a Kardashian. You know, I’m not saying that but I’m just saying have a little empathy for how difficult a thing this is and also have an appreciation for the girls who are dressing modestly because it’s really hard. So that is the end of argument number one that I think is a dumb argument.

Second Argument

The second argument is often presented as a positive thing, you know, like, Oh, that’s the negative argument we get that you don’t do it for men because they can’t control themselves. After all, yeah, they should control themselves. But you know, the positive argument is that it’s ladylike to dress modestly, it’s dignified, real ladies dress modestly. And if you don’t dress modestly, you’re not a real lady. You know, it can be a little shaming. Now, there’s truth in this argument. Uh, you know, I don’t think this is a completely bad argument. There is truth to it. You can find modest clothes that do make you look a little more dignified than certain other immodest clothes. But there are also modest clothes that are like a shapeless bag and you don’t look dignified or feminine in them, you know? So this argument, I think it can be a little shaming and gotta be careful. Well, how it’s presented, but then also sometimes there’s like a sub-component of this argument I feel like is when people go, Oh, well, you know, modest clothes are more dignified and beautiful. And you look like more of a woman when you wear them.

Therefore, the immodest clothes are ugly. And they’re just trashy and ugly looking. And it’s like, let’s be real. Some immodest clothes are ugly. I’ll grant you that. In fact, a lot of them are, but some immodest clothes that are actually pretty beautiful. And it kind of stinks you can’t wear them. So that’s another thing that I feel like gets lost in this modesty debate. You know, we often don’t acknowledge the difficulty of dressing modestly, and the difficulty of finding modest clothes. And then juxtapose to that. We do have some immodest clothes that do look cute. You know, like I’m thinking of a lot of like, Yeah, what’s the name of these dresses? Like, I think they’re called like, I don’t know the name of them. I’ll put up a picture here. And we’ll pop it up. But it’s pretty, and it’s like a satiny kind of silky, and some immodest clothes are pretty and so then it does become more of a sacrifice again, because you’re like, oh, that stuff’s kind of cute. And then there’s this, and it’s like, you know, a shapeless t-shirt and a jean skirt. And people are like, they’re, that’s what you should wear. That’s what you should like, and you’re like, You’re telling me that’s feminine and dignified, like, I don’t think so. So it can be a tough call. And so that’s why I think the whole debate of immodest clothes are ugly and unfeminist. And you’re a lady if you dress modestly because it’s prettier and more dignified. I feel like that can be a weak argument sometimes, because it’s not always the case, you know?

So having said that, those are my thoughts on the two arguments or two ways not to present modesty. In the next video, I’ll get into what I think is a pretty compelling argument for dressing modestly. This is why I dress modestly, or at least, you know, make every attempt to and so yeah, so if you have a question, leave me a comment. I know this is a really hot topic. And it’s always as a woman, it’s always, you know, talking about how we look and how we present ourselves and our clothing choices is always a tender spot. I don’t know what it is about us women, but, you know, It’s hard being a woman, you know, and so when people start kind of nitpicking at your clothes, it can feel very demoralizing. I acknowledge that there is something about us women. You know, we want to look beautiful. We want to express ourselves, it can often be an artistic thing. We like the self-expression of getting to choose our own clothes. And so sometimes the modesty debate can feel a little stifling, because you’re like, well, I want to express myself in my clothing and I feel like I can’t do that. So that can be something that makes this a hard topic. So if you have any comments or questions like Feel free to leave them below, and then we’ll get into the next video and we’ll talk about what I think is a compelling argument for dressing honestly.